Zelda Mafia Round 2 Night One (IMPORTANT, REPLACEMENT NEEDED!)

[Rayman FREAK]

Hoo boy, some new developments have arisen. I can't be on for very long, so for now, here's my take on the biggest development, the TML situation.

The initial reason he was called out was because he suggested that he didn't know the townies' win condition. This was demonstrated by this post:

(1) If the Townies kill all the Mafia, do the Townies win if the Slasher is still alive? (i.e., Is the Slasher "like a Mafioso"?)

I can certainly see why this would be a cause for concern, and when I first read Mikhail's interpretation of it, I admit I thought "Oh my lord..."

But let's now take a look at his second question.

(2) If the Mafia outnumbers the non-Mafia, does the Mafia win if the Slasher is still alive? (i.e., Is the Slasher "like a Hero"?)

This, in my mind, is equally indicative that TML is not a member of the mafia. Does that then mean he is the slasher? I don't believe so.

The reasons he gave for his wording of the post (posting during work, blurring the words "evil" and "mafia," etc.) all sound legitimate to me. I'm chalking this whole thing up to carelessness.

I'll be on for a little while longer if anyone wants to discuss this (or other things) further.

[Wyborn]

You people make four new pages in the four hours I'm gone and you accomplish exactly nothing. God All-Mighty.

*throws his hands up*

I had to explain to TML what a Mafia game even was when I invited him here. If he's ignorant of the rules that's because he's a chump-ass noob, not because of some super-clever cover, ZeldaGirl and Hottie should be able to sympathize since they fell ass-backwards into victory last time.

Knowing the win conditions of the Slasher is irrelevant because assuming the worst-case scenario or best-case scenario doesn't help us accomplish anything. Worst case scenario the Townies and Heroes need to find him first: best case the Mafia does too. In all cases that's not feasible, especially this early on. Harping on it on the first day is a waste of time and space. If I have to lock this topic before the end of day 1 because you guys can't figure out if you've figured out what you're fighting against I am going to be very badly disappointed. Worry about the slasher, but do not specifically start going after him until we have some idea who he is.

ZG: do not eliminate i_a_n. You have no reason to. He saw all the same PMs we did in the first topic: knowledge of our winning conditions do not mean anything at all. Last round showed exactly how dangerous writing him off can be - even when he was a hero he killed almost at random. Your willingness to eliminate anybody this early on puts you as solidly in my sights as anyone here.

HotD: BLAH BLAH BLAH CAPS. The same show of bravado does not impress me - mine eye is trained on thee. For you as of yet I have nothing but a gut feeling, but a gut feeling with nothing else backing it is a pretty strong motivating factor for me. Watch your tongue or I will see its case taken from your shoulders!

Chunky: Where the hell are you?

Everyone: Fingers of Suspicion are not "official" things, you rubes! They are there exactly to provide you with an expression of suspicion that is not a vote! A little or a lot of suspicion can still merit a finger! This "Shifty Gaze" crap is pointless! Pointless!

Oh man I like being a Townie. This is liberating.

DOUBLEPOST:

I forgot to update my FoS list.

FoS: Chunky
FoS: Namechange
FoS: ZeldaGirl

[Apollo the Just]

Oh, and by the way, I PLAN TO KEEP MY FOS ON TML. Did anyone notice he was also one of the few people to react angrily and defensively when FoS'd? Perhaps this is due to his newbness at the game; perhaps because he's HIDING SOMETHING.

I've some other reasons to be suspicious, and those reasons come from BEFORE page twelve.... TML, I AM WATCHING YOU.

Not to worry, though... I'm watching the rest of you, too. TRUST NO ONE... and act smartly. As if I haven't said that enough.

[Rayman FREAK]

I need my 24 hourly prolonged nap now.

But first: FoS: Chunky

Please, if anybody knows how to get a hold of Chunky, do so. I'm pointing my finger mainly to draw attention to his unnerving absence, not because I particularly believe he is evil yet.

[Apollo the Just]

Has anyone PM'd him?

[Wyborn]

We can't communicate outside of the topic. PMing him to remind him to post would be technically illegal.

[Apollo the Just]

Oh, right.

Oh, and I have a random favor to ask of someone... the 'Quick Links' tab on my browser isn't working right because my computer's messed up. Could somebody please go to the Whos Online tab, copy the web address, and paste it here so I can go there? It would be nice to get that info. Please and thank you.

[Wyborn]

forums/online.php

Here ya go. It's half-useless, though, a huge number of these people are invisible.

[Apollo the Just]

That's true; thank you nonetheless.

DOUBLE POST:

it's getting late.... gues I'll take another nap. Prancing and grinning takes its toll, yo. *skips off*

[Heroine of the Dragon]

I've eaten... and had thinking time. I understand the need to be suspicious of everyone, but there has been a truth told... I guess we need to find some few we trust and work together. Albeit right out in the open here. :/


I'll CAPS all I like and enjoy every second of it, THANK YOU, Wy!!! I like to use them to emphasise stuff, and I'll be damned if I change my game for any of you. Regardless of your 'gut feeling', I have one objective and you know exactly what is was last time, and therefore, currently is. I haven't changed sides in the intervening period. (Have you??? You play as if you have... but which side, huh? If you changed sides from Mafia... that still leaves two... which YOU pointed out; Townie or maniacal Slasher.) My claim though, is a truth you will have to discover for yourselves, for we all know that everyone wants and needs to convince the rest that they're all townies, as well, to avoid a lynching.

I honestly have no idea which of you to trust right now. *shrugs* But I am suspicious of those currently throwing around wild accusations... almost as if they want to cast suspicion off themselves.

Waiting for you to explain yourself, ML, to my question...

[Microphone_Kirby]

You people make four new pages in the four hours I'm gone and you accomplish exactly nothing. God All-Mighty.

*throws his hands up*

I had to explain to TML what a Mafia game even was when I invited him here. If he's ignorant of the rules that's because he's a chump-ass noob, not because of some super-clever cover, ZeldaGirl and Hottie should be able to sympathize since they fell ass-backwards into victory last time.

Knowing the win conditions of the Slasher is irrelevant because assuming the worst-case scenario or best-case scenario doesn't help us accomplish anything. Worst case scenario the Townies and Heroes need to find him first: best case the Mafia does too. In all cases that's not feasible, especially this early on. Harping on it on the first day is a waste of time and space. If I have to lock this topic before the end of day 1 because you guys can't figure out if you've figured out what you're fighting against I am going to be very badly disappointed. Worry about the slasher, but do not specifically start going after him until we have some idea who he is.

ZG: do not eliminate i_a_n. You have no reason to. He saw all the same PMs we did in the first topic: knowledge of our winning conditions do not mean anything at all. Last round showed exactly how dangerous writing him off can be - even when he was a hero he killed almost at random. Your willingness to eliminate anybody this early on puts you as solidly in my sights as anyone here.

HotD: BLAH BLAH BLAH CAPS. The same show of bravado does not impress me - mine eye is trained on thee. For you as of yet I have nothing but a gut feeling, but a gut feeling with nothing else backing it is a pretty strong motivating factor for me. Watch your tongue or I will see its case taken from your shoulders!

Chunky: Where the hell are you?

Everyone: Fingers of Suspicion are not "official" things, you rubes! They are there exactly to provide you with an expression of suspicion that is not a vote! A little or a lot of suspicion can still merit a finger! This "Shifty Gaze" crap is pointless! Pointless!

Oh man I like being a Townie. This is liberating.

I start in order:
1. (TML and Mafia): Not much I can respond to here. I'm on a similar boat TML is; not much practice arguing with anyone last time. The last line made me laugh though, and I agree with it to an extent.

2. (The Slasher): I agree with that knowing how the Slasher wins doesen't help at all. Action does though, even if it's just pointing fingers. I'll say this about him: I think the Slasher is just as dangerous as the Mafia and a Hero with bad aim.

3. (Re: ZG): I agree with all of this. Nothing else to say...

4. (Re: HotD): That "show of bravado" got you killed last time, Wy. I'll admit that I would get behind her with that energy she radiates, but it won't keep me on her side.
That's why I generally fear good speakers, mostly becouse I follow them like a good sheep. They might accually convince me that I'm something I'm not. On that note, there are only two people I fear in this game...

5. (Re: Chunky): Taking a siesta somewhere???

6. (FoS unoffical): Maybe they use this "Shifty Gaze" thing because they don't want any negative attention brought onto them. This made me feel a bit bolder.

7. (Townie?): Yeah. Riiiiiiight.

Now, it's my turn for a little pointing.

FoS: Chunky, Swordmaster Link
Chunky: You scared him off with your accusations, Wy. This makes me wonder...
SML: Inactive since the game officially started. Suspicious...

That's how I feel.

[Wyborn]

I'm just going to clear the air a bit here because this air of mysticism surrounding ZeldaGirl and especially Hottie needs to be dispelled.

Do you know what killed the Mafia last roundd?

I defended CuccoLady, thinking she was a Townie, because if she was hung I thought it would lend credit to me being a Townie too.

i_am_nobody killed CuccoLady because she was inactive on the day before her killing. She could have just as easily been a Townie, but she was Mafia and that was the first problem.

Blake killed Daos at the last second, which made my counter-offensive look even worse.

Mushi scanned me and knew I was Mafia going into the day I died.

ian trusted me because he had the Kokiri Emerald.

Namechange knew Mushi was Zelda and was ready to back him up no matter what.

And the funny part?

ZeldaGirl and Hottie fell backwards into correct reasoning because they made a mistake early in the game that was so profound that I was thrown into a suspicious light for being the only person who RPed and didn't make that mistake (except ian)...Blake didn't make it, either, but they never got him on that point.

That's it. Beware the tendency to hero worship where there is none: if they are Mafia they will use it so shove a knife into your ribs.

My FoS: ZeldaGirl has been strengthened, on reflection. Here is why.

ZeldaGirl holds that claiming your role as a Townie would absolve you of some guilt and can only help the team because it means you live longer. But that is not the case: if people start actually revealing their roles, it narrows the number of people who can be Heroes.

Nowhere in her reasoning does she allow for the possibility that someone will tell a bold-faced lie.

Watch this, guys, I'm going to demonstrate how to tell a bold-faced lie:

I am Majora, Mafia Leader. My power is to bring the moon crashing down on every third night and kill five random people, from any team.

See that? A lie - not even a good one.

Beware, people, of poor reasoning, and beware more of people who will not admit to being able to lie.

I am edging towards being ready to make a vote.

[The Missing Link]

Normally, I don't like being called a "chump-ass noob." I think I'll make an exception this time around. X)

Oh, and by the way, I PLAN TO KEEP MY FOS ON TML. Did anyone notice he was also one of the few people to react angrily and defensively when FoS'd? Perhaps this is due to his newbness at the game; perhaps because he's HIDING SOMETHING.

I've some other reasons to be suspicious, and those reasons come from BEFORE page twelve.... TML, I AM WATCHING YOU.

Or... PERHAPS it's part of some overarching, complicated strategy that will ensure my team's victory in the long r--nah, probably not. X) Just please don't watch me when I go to the restroom; I'm forever horrified by ??? as it is.

(Oh gosh, imagine him as one of the 21 roles in the game. Maybe ??? is the slasher; that'd be a horrible way to die... *shudder*)

Wyborn brings up some very good points about ZeldaGirl with regards to i_a_n. I think this is why I played it extremely cool at the very beginning, merely testing the waters and trying to be "diplomatic" until I got the hang of the gameplay through the strategies of others. I'd like to at least hear what ZG has to say about the issue because, when the rubber meets the road, I think I have more grounds to suspect ZG than I do Chunky... and I'm still waiting for his little reply.

[SilverWind]

...Reading all these pages in one go is fun. XD You guys are crazy in jumping all over the place, you know?

I have suspicions all over the place, but hey, these games do have more than one mafia member. :P

It's weird knowing some of you guys and knowing how you lie or truth-tell. Because I swear, I can see patterns of behaviour I've seen before! *POINTS*

[I am nobody]

ZG writing me of that quick is strange. I could easily have just taken the win conditions off my previous PM. And didn't the last game show how easy it is to fake role claim?

ZG: You are very trusting. Even though I lied about roles during the last game, you are qucik to believe I am a townie just because I know the win conditions.

HotD: Why are you so quick to go on the defensive now? It took a vote to get you to do that last round.

Chunky:........Do I need to say it?

ZG: You are very trusting. Even though I lied about roles during the last game, you are qucik to believe I am a townie just because I know the win conditions.

HotD: Why are you so quick to go on the defensive now? It took a vote to get you to do that last round.

Chunky:........Do I need to say it?

ZG: Why are you trusting me? I lied about roles last game, and yet you still believe I am a townie just because I know the win conditions?

HotD: Why are you going on the defensive so quickly? Last game it took a vote for you to do that.

Chunky:.........Do I need to say it?

Very slow browser....

[Microphone_Kirby]

My FoS: ZeldaGirl has been strengthened, on reflection. Here is why.

ZeldaGirl holds that claiming your role as a Townie would absolve you of some guilt and can only help the team because it means you live longer. But that is not the case: if people start actually revealing their roles, it narrows the number of people who can be Heroes.

Nowhere in her reasoning does she allow for the possibility that someone will tell a bold-faced lie.

Wyborn and ian made some decent points, ZG. Care to explain yourself?

[The Missing Link]

SilverWind... it's perfectly nice to have suspicions all over the place. It'd also be perfectly nice to, you know, see more words from you regarding everything. Or do we have a reason to keep quiet, hmm?

There are some other VERY quiet members that need to start posting as well... And I'm not just talking about Chunky and Gearz... I count at least six members--counting them--who've made less than four posts each (although my count is probably well off).

Time to update the ol' FoS list:

FoS: ZeldaGirl, Chunky, CuccoLady

[Rayman FREAK]

I gotta tell you TML, FoSing somebody who's FoSing you (CuccoLady) without giving any explanation seems HIGHLY suspicious to me.

Care to elaborate?

DOUBLEPOST: Never mind, that's an old FoS. Sorry about that.

[The Missing Link]

My FoS of CuccoLady has been there quite a while, so this isn't a new one. My rationales are twofold:

My suspicions were first piqued the moment she made the pronoun error of calling "the Townies" "them". Before that point, I had been playing the strategy of being very careful not to accidentally pronoun myself to either group. However, many times since then--especially when I've been distracted at work--I've accidentally pronouned myself into my side... although I believe I went back and caught them all. As I said before, it could be a simple mistake, or it could be an actual mistake. However, in the absence of glaring mistakes, subtle errors are the only tell-tale signs you get to go off of.

My second sign was when she FoS'd HotD. Granted, she FoS'd me in fast succession, but it was her rationale for FoS'ing HotD that seemed to make no sense. Her rationale was something to the effect that HotD was acting exactly as she did last time and that she trusted her about the same as everyone else. While it's true that this could just be a simple gut feeling that CL has, she didn't come out and say it was "just a gut feeling." She just FoSed, put some silly reason down there, and let it go.

She may have legitimate reasons for that FoS accusation. She says she had legitimate reasons for FoSing me, after all. But she hasn't come out with anything that sounds... hmmm... concrete enough to merit an FoS. She's asked no questions to HotD (or myself, for that matter) outside of what others have come up with. In other words, I cannot be for certain if she actually has reasons to support that FoS or if she's just bluffing.

That's what merits my FoS.

EDIT: You're right - An old FoS. But I don't think I've been very deep in stating why I have it. So there's the argument in full.

[Marilink]

Leading what exactly where, ML??? I haven't suggested any single course of action... so I think you're imagining things up and trying to make me look suspicious so you don't. INTERESTING!!!! AND SUSPICIOUS!!!

It's not a matter of where you're leading us--it's a matter of the fact that you're leading us--period. Whether or not you're leading us into a trap is irrelevant, the fact that you're leading us at all--and how well you know it may work--it what's suspicious.

So, my FoS remains. Also to ZG, since that new evidence has popped up.

FoS: Hjots
FoS: ZG

Bee tee dubs, I can't always get to a computer, since I have to go to Computer lab or to the campus library, and when I'm supposed to be in the dorms at night that gets a little hard.