Balance Issues

The Willful Wanderer · #21

On a similar note...

Adding 2 HP to your character is nothing like as effective as adding 2 DEF or STR. You should probably make the HP and MP boosts from Skill points +3 or +4- maybe even +5. 2 STR gets applied every time you attack. 2 HP only works against one hit, and then its gone until between battles, when you can replenish everything anyways. And MP is even harder, since you eat those up much faster (usually), and there's no way to replenish those free....

Edit:

Additionally, the magical spells (at least, the base ones) are not strong enough. I'm dealing the same damage with them as I do with my dagger, and my STR is still baseline. At a cost of nothing, I can do 0-22 damage, or at a cost of 10 MP, I can do 0-25 damage, and in both cases, I do 0 more often than I do over 7. With the dagger, that's no big deal, I don't have to pay by the attack. But if I'm gonna be eating my MP for an attack, it needs to be better somehow. If not higher damage, try giving the spells a smaller range of damage- instead of 1-25 on a hit, make it 10-17, or something, just to give an example. It really needs fixing in some way or other.

Edit again:

On a further note, it's never specified if STR is used for spells as well as weapons or not. Is it? Or do spells do a set range of damage, regardless of stats?

#22

Skill point boosts I can't tamper with, though I can tamper with items.

MP shouldn't be eaten up anywhere near the rate of HP.

I'm not even entirely sure how attack magic works in terms of its strength, but if others are having issues with the amount of damage it does, I will tweak it.

I don't know whether strength is used for spells.

The Willful Wanderer · #23

Well, I can confirm my own opinion completely. With Kirala (Wizard 3), I can't reliably take out Gollum Twin yet, even with potions, but with Lyryll (Squire 2), I can beat the Goblin Guard without sweating much, and without bothering to carry potions.

Magic needs to be significantly stronger than weapons, since you're constantly paying for it, but so far, it seems to be about the same, or slightly weaker, at comparable levels.

I'm pretty sure there's nobody else trying to use spells primarily in combat, but extra opinions would be very welcome.

Cravdraa · #24

If skill points can't be adjusted, would it be possible to have HP and MP increase slightly when you level up? As of now the only time I see people gaining them is if they class change.

#25

Class change is it. The closest I can get to what you suggest is having another item category that'll boost you X amount per level, and putting those boosts at a cheap rate.

Cravdraa · #26

Yeah, I guess that wouldn't work. There'd be nothing to stop people from buying multipals of each once they hit the correct level.

#27

For items you can only get one. But anyway, never mind. I figured out how to change this and boosted HP and MP from 2 to 3.

The Willful Wanderer · #28

Way cool. I suspect you may find yourself boosting them up to +4, though probably no higher than that.

Thanks for the attention to the various issues!

Also, you should probably re-figure the HP bonuses of various items given that 1 HP/MP is worth less than 1 STR/DEF/EVA/VIT- the amulets, for instance, the 5000 munny ones are 30 HP, 30 MP, 30 STR, and 30 I Don't Recall.... Should probably be at least 40 HP/MP, given a 2nd level spell (at a cost of several thousand munny.....) eats 40 MP per shot. It'd make even more sense to make it 45 or 50 HP/MP for those particular amulets.

heh · #29

Why are the lv 1 spells so expensive? 4,500? geez.

#30

Everything I don't want anyone accessing remains the same as when I installed it. The system I installed originally had people making hundreds of thousands easily.

The Willful Wanderer · #31

Okay, so from what I'm seeing as I play, XP is based on damage, not in terms of % of your maximum HP in damage taken, but in *number of hit points*. That is seriously not going to work if, as things are now, certain classes gain less HP at class advancement. That would mean that all those low-hp magic users will be forced to level a LOT slower than the melee classes. Is this a wrong impression I'm getting, or is that the way it's actually set up?

On a further note, what the hey does Vitality do? Is it just there to eat stat points?

#32

I'm not sure that's actually how it works, but anyone who wants to invest in HP in terms of items/skills can do so. All classes are roughly equal, though, but I've swapped out a couple MP for some HP.

Vitality acts as a second defense and works more effectively at higher HP levels. If you ask me, it's the least vital stat.

#33

Reconsidering it, since STR and DEF seem so much more important and most people are spending points on those, I'm going to create something that will allow people to purchase at 100 munny per level a 2HP/MP boost. If I don't, it will become difficult creating enough bots, or at least the ones I do create will have to very low HP. I can always reverse this decision at some point and just delete them, but I'm going to go for it for now.

The Willful Wanderer · #34

I'm starting to get REALLY cheesed off. I'm level 5 now, with 69 defense, and still the Gollum Twin is reliably swinging on me for 45+ damage, usually in the same turn as I, having just dropped below 30, cast Heal, and thereby killing me.

SOMETHING IS NOT RIGHT HERE. It's level 2. I'm level 5. It's BEATING THE **** OUT OF ME. I can't reliably do damage to it with my spells. Not 'reliably kill it'. I mean I can't reliably do more than 0 damage to it when I use 10 MP to cast a spell.

The Willful Wanderer · #35

I think I've pinned the problem down.

In terms of damage, I'm getting about a 1:1 ratio for my MP. That is, I can expect to do about 1 damage per 1 MP spent. Given that I'm using 10 MP per shot to cast spells, that means I can expect to do 10 damage per turn average.

Given that a warrior at a comparable level to me does about 20-30 damage per round to the same targets, the spells simply aren't cutting it. The damage is horrendously unreliable, and I don't even know why I keep doing 0 damage with them to apply stat points to fix it. I've been focusing on Def and Eva to avoid damage, but they really aren't helping, and spending skill points on HP won't do me much good when it's only 15 HP/level, and I generally am taking 30-50 damage per swing (during which I do 10... whoopee... if I'm lucky. To something that now has as many or more hit points than me)- and the dang creatures still have about a 50/50 chance of hitting me each time they swing, regardless of what the number values on my stats are.

This says to me two things: Number one: Magic bites. HARD. It's not a reliable damage source, which is what is needed to counter the lack of HP and defenses. Number two: all those points I've dumped into having a 73 Defense at level 6 are not doing a whole lot.

This doesn't just apply to the Gollum Twin- I can't beat ANY of the monsters after Sparkball at any level of reliability. Which is severely borked, because that means anything level 2 and over, I can't kill reliably- except the Gollum Twin.

I can only do that by eating potions and Ethers, which means I'm spending 30, 60, 90, 120, or 210 Munny each combat with those things, and only earning... what, 45 back? Given that I average one fused SP-SP per battle, that's a net 15 Munny loss to fight those things.

I can't do damage well with the dagger, because I haven't spent anything on STR. It's still 40. But stabbing them to death is MORE EFFECTIVE than casting my spells (I average about 12-15 damage per round with the dagger against the GT, which has a 60 defense or so). It's also more efficient, because I'm not spending 90 munny every 10 swings for MP replenishment. (Via Ether. 100 munny every 10 swings if I use the hospital instead.) This says: PROBLEM.

#36

I tried Gollum Twin as a wizard and had relatively little problem with him, even without items. However, I was only getting 12-15HP off for spells, so I can see where this may prove frustrating. What I've done is changed the damage amplification of the level 0 spells to 1.10. This should boost you closer to the 30 range. What I suspect this does mean is that 4 levels of spells won't be nearly enough. We'll need to reconsider that as time goes by, but we should be good for now.

heh · #37

You should really be using potions instead of spells. Heal only heals 20-30 Hp, A Small potion heals 40 HP, 10 mp, and gets rid of blind. It only costs 30g, and Gollums give about 60. If those aren't cutting it, fuse 2 Small Potions together for double the effect.

You shouldn't be a wizard until you can afford the LV 1 spells, Switch to Squire, it has good stat bonus and I belive it can still cast lv 0 Spells. I'll have to check. And it has more salary. Edit: Squires can use all the lv 0 spells that aren't Heal.

Edit: Oh, Maybe mages will be more worth it now. Heil Shane. Or Something.

The Willful Wanderer · #38

I would like to point out how I already noted that using potions was running me out of money FASTER than I was making it, even moreso when I wasn't using Heal to cure myself mid-combat.

heh · #39

omg im sory :(

The Willful Wanderer · #40

Kirala Yuki casted Cold on Goblin Guard dealing a damage of 3 leaving Goblin Guard them with 79 HP
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Goblin Guard attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 56 leaving Kirala Yuki with 67 HP
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Kirala Yuki casted Spark on Goblin Guard dealing a damage of 12 leaving Goblin Guard them with 67 HP
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Goblin Guard attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 0 leaving Kirala Yuki with 67 HP. This is because Kirala Yuki's defence was too good for Goblin Guard
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Kirala Yuki casted Cold on Goblin Guard dealing a damage of 0 leaving Goblin Guard them with 67 HP
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Goblin Guard attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 0 leaving Kirala Yuki with 67 HP. This is because Kirala Yuki's defence was too good for Goblin Guard
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Kirala Yuki attacked Goblin Guard stabbing the dagger in their back dealing a damage of 5 leaving Goblin Guard with 62 HP
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Goblin Guard attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 11 leaving Kirala Yuki with 56 HP
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Kirala Yuki casted Cold on Goblin Guard dealing a damage of 0 leaving Goblin Guard them with 62 HP
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Goblin Guard attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 0 leaving Kirala Yuki with 56 HP. This is because Kirala Yuki's defence was too good for Goblin Guard
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Kirala Yuki casted Spark on Goblin Guard dealing a damage of 0 leaving Goblin Guard them with 62 HP
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Goblin Guard attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 10 leaving Kirala Yuki with 46 HP
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Kirala Yuki casted Heal on themself raising there HP up to 70.6
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Goblin Guard attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 0 leaving Kirala Yuki with 70.6 HP. This is because Kirala Yuki's defence was too good for Goblin Guard
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Kirala Yuki casted Cold on Goblin Guard dealing a damage of 0 leaving Goblin Guard them with 62 HP
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Goblin Guard attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 44 leaving Kirala Yuki with 26 HP
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Kirala Yuki casted Heal on themself raising there HP up to 50.6
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Goblin Guard attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 0 leaving Kirala Yuki with 50.6 HP. This is because Kirala Yuki's defence was too good for Goblin Guard
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Kirala Yuki casted Heal on themself raising there HP up to 74.6
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Goblin Guard attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 33 leaving Kirala Yuki with 41.6 HP
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I proceeded to lose the battle next round. I would like to note that I spent 81 MP to deal 15 damage and heal about 72. Or, I spent 60 MP to deal 15 damage. Based on this, I am inclined to say that offensive spells are still a bit on the weak side. Will run more battles, just to be sure (once I can afford to replenish my MP yet again).

Kirala Yuki attacked Gollum Twin stabbing the dagger in their back dealing a damage of 2 leaving Gollum Twin with 73 HP
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Gollum Twin attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 0 leaving Kirala Yuki with 123 HP. This is because Kirala Yuki's defence was too good for Gollum Twin
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Kirala Yuki attacked Gollum Twin stabbing the dagger in their back dealing a damage of 8 leaving Gollum Twin with 65 HP
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Gollum Twin attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 36 leaving Kirala Yuki with 87 HP
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Kirala Yuki attacked Gollum Twin stabbing the dagger in their back dealing a damage of 1 leaving Gollum Twin with 64 HP
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Gollum Twin attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 14 leaving Kirala Yuki with 73 HP
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Kirala Yuki attacked Gollum Twin stabbing the dagger in their back dealing a damage of 0 leaving Gollum Twin with 64 HP. This is because Gollum Twin's defence was too good for Kirala Yuki
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Gollum Twin attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 39 leaving Kirala Yuki with 34 HP
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Kirala Yuki used a healing potion taking her HP upto 119 and MP upto 102
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Kirala Yuki casted Cold on Gollum Twin dealing a damage of 0 leaving Gollum Twin them with 64 HP
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Gollum Twin attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 0 leaving Kirala Yuki with 119 HP. This is because Kirala Yuki's defence was too good for Gollum Twin
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Kirala Yuki casted Spark on Gollum Twin dealing a damage of 20 leaving Gollum Twin them with 44 HP
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Gollum Twin attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 51 leaving Kirala Yuki with 68 HP
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Kirala Yuki casted Cold on Gollum Twin dealing a damage of 16 leaving Gollum Twin them with 28 HP
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Gollum Twin attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 0 leaving Kirala Yuki with 68 HP. This is because Kirala Yuki's defence was too good for Gollum Twin
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Kirala Yuki casted Spark on Gollum Twin dealing a damage of 8 leaving Gollum Twin them with 20 HP
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Gollum Twin attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 13 leaving Kirala Yuki with 55 HP
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Kirala Yuki casted Cold on Gollum Twin dealing a damage of 7 leaving Gollum Twin them with 13 HP
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Gollum Twin attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 34 leaving Kirala Yuki with 21 HP
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Kirala Yuki casted Cold on Gollum Twin dealing a damage of 1 leaving Gollum Twin them with 12 HP
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Gollum Twin attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 0 leaving Kirala Yuki with 21 HP. This is because Kirala Yuki's defence was too good for Gollum Twin
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Kirala Yuki casted Spark on Gollum Twin dealing a damage of 2 leaving Gollum Twin them with 10 HP
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Gollum Twin attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 0 leaving Kirala Yuki with 21 HP. This is because Kirala Yuki's defence was too good for Gollum Twin
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Kirala Yuki casted Spark on Gollum Twin dealing a damage of 0 leaving Gollum Twin them with 10 HP
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Gollum Twin attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 10 leaving Kirala Yuki with 11 HP
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Kirala Yuki attacked Gollum Twin carefully executing multiple attacks dealing a damage of 6 leaving Gollum Twin with 4 HP
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Gollum Twin attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 0 leaving Kirala Yuki with 11 HP. This is because Kirala Yuki's defence was too good for Gollum Twin
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Next round I Limit Breaked again and killed it. That makes 80 MP for 54 damage. Still not a great proportion.

By contrast, using magic only for healing:

Kirala Yuki attacked Gollum Twin stabbing the dagger in their back dealing a damage of 0 leaving Gollum Twin with 75 HP. This is because Gollum Twin's defence was too good for Kirala Yuki
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Gollum Twin attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 9 leaving Kirala Yuki with 114 HP
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Kirala Yuki attacked Gollum Twin stabbing the dagger in their back dealing a damage of 2 leaving Gollum Twin with 73 HP
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Gollum Twin attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 0 leaving Kirala Yuki with 114 HP. This is because Kirala Yuki's defence was too good for Gollum Twin
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Kirala Yuki attacked Gollum Twin stabbing the dagger in their back dealing a damage of 21 leaving Gollum Twin with 52 HP
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Gollum Twin attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 14 leaving Kirala Yuki with 100 HP
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Kirala Yuki attacked Gollum Twin stabbing the dagger in their back dealing a damage of 4 leaving Gollum Twin with 48 HP
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Gollum Twin attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 25 leaving Kirala Yuki with 75 HP
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Kirala Yuki attacked Gollum Twin stabbing the dagger in their back dealing a damage of 11 leaving Gollum Twin with 37 HP
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Gollum Twin attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 18 leaving Kirala Yuki with 57 HP
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Kirala Yuki casted Heal on themself raising there HP up to 81.6
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Gollum Twin attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 0 leaving Kirala Yuki with 81.6 HP. This is because Kirala Yuki's defence was too good for Gollum Twin
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Kirala Yuki attacked Gollum Twin stabbing the dagger in their back dealing a damage of 19 leaving Gollum Twin with 18 HP
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Gollum Twin attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 18 leaving Kirala Yuki with 63 HP
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Kirala Yuki attacked Gollum Twin stabbing the dagger in their back dealing a damage of 0 leaving Gollum Twin with 18 HP. This is because Gollum Twin's defence was too good for Kirala Yuki
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Gollum Twin attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 0 leaving Kirala Yuki with 63 HP. This is because Kirala Yuki's defence was too good for Gollum Twin
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Kirala Yuki attacked Gollum Twin stabbing the dagger in their back dealing a damage of 2 leaving Gollum Twin with 16 HP
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Gollum Twin attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 30 leaving Kirala Yuki with 33 HP
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In 9 attacks, over 75 damage at a cost of 7 MP for a 24-HP heal (that it turned out I didn't really need). Vastly more efficient, and that's with a STR of 40- in other words, unboosted by stat points.

And another knife fight:

Kirala Yuki attacked Gollum Twin stabbing the dagger in their back dealing a damage of 3 leaving Gollum Twin with 72 HP
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Gollum Twin attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 15 leaving Kirala Yuki with 108 HP
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Kirala Yuki attacked Gollum Twin stabbing the dagger in their back dealing a damage of 10 leaving Gollum Twin with 62 HP
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Gollum Twin attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 0 leaving Kirala Yuki with 108 HP. This is because Kirala Yuki's defence was too good for Gollum Twin
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Kirala Yuki attacked Gollum Twin stabbing the dagger in their back dealing a damage of 17 leaving Gollum Twin with 45 HP
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Gollum Twin attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 17 leaving Kirala Yuki with 91 HP
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Kirala Yuki attacked Gollum Twin stabbing the dagger in their back dealing a damage of 4 leaving Gollum Twin with 41 HP
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Gollum Twin attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 0 leaving Kirala Yuki with 91 HP. This is because Kirala Yuki's defence was too good for Gollum Twin
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Kirala Yuki attacked Gollum Twin stabbing the dagger in their back dealing a damage of 27 leaving Gollum Twin with 14 HP
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Gollum Twin attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 24 leaving Kirala Yuki with 67 HP
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Kirala Yuki attacked Gollum Twin stabbing the dagger in their back dealing a damage of 8 leaving Gollum Twin with 6 HP
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Gollum Twin attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 44 leaving Kirala Yuki with 23 HP
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Ended next round when I stabbed it to death. This one's 7 attacks for over 75 HP at no MP cost.

Now a spell combat:

Kirala Yuki casted Cold on Gollum Twin dealing a damage of 0 leaving Gollum Twin them with 75 HP
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Gollum Twin attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 0 leaving Kirala Yuki with 123 HP. This is because Kirala Yuki's defence was too good for Gollum Twin
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Kirala Yuki used a healing potion taking her HP upto 123 and MP upto 105
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Kirala Yuki casted Spark on Gollum Twin dealing a damage of 34 leaving Gollum Twin them with 41 HP
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Gollum Twin attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 30 leaving Kirala Yuki with 93 HP
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Kirala Yuki casted Cold on Gollum Twin dealing a damage of 14 leaving Gollum Twin them with 27 HP
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Gollum Twin attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 9 leaving Kirala Yuki with 84 HP
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Kirala Yuki casted Spark on Gollum Twin dealing a damage of 4 leaving Gollum Twin them with 23 HP
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Gollum Twin attacked Kirala Yuki dealing a damage of 20 leaving Kirala Yuki with 64 HP
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Next turn, Cold for the win. THat's 5 spells (50 MP) for ~75 damage. A lot better than I've been doing any other time so far. Hope it's the previous battles that were flukes.